Date   

Re: HELP!!! Inner and Middle Ear Infection

Katka Pruskova
 

middle ear infection can be seen on x-ray, but inner ear infection can be visible only using CT (as well as E. cuniculi lesions)

you should rule out E. Cuniculi (do the blood test for IgM and IgG), symptoms can be almost the same

 

in case of EC, he needs fenbendazole (antibiotics don’t work here)

in case of otitis, he needs antibiotics (if there is any discharge, do the sensitivity culture)

very good information abou otitis and tips for treatment: http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Otit/otitis.htm


Re: HELP!!! Inner and Middle Ear Infection

Cindy Fisher
 

We had a rabbit come into our shelter with a severe head tilt. He was initially sent to a non-rabbit vet who put him on Baytril, but it didn’t help. We subsequently took him to a rabbit-savvy vet who put him on azithromycin and fenbendazole (just in case E. cuniculi was the culprit). We found out through x-rays that both ears were infected, but he was unfortunately given the right meds too late. His ear infection cleared but his head tilt is permanent.

Cindy

On Jul 8, 2018, at 7:23 PM, nobunnyleftbehind@... [etherbun] <etherbun-noreply@...> wrote:


Dear All


We have a rescued elder bun with diagnosed middle and presumed inner ear infection. This rabbit now has some right side facial paralysis as well as balance problems. 


We are working with one vet who prescribed Baytril. Prior to the recent use of Baytril back in April he had treatments with Osurnia which evidently didnt address the infection.


We think that Baytril is not the best choice. If someone here could respond with their experience in treating middle and inner ear infection.


Also has anyone experienced recovery from paralysis in such a case and with what treatment? 

Is the paralysis indicative of inner ear infection or could middle ear infection also cause paralysis.


Another vet wants to do a CT but we dont know what good that will do as this rabbit isnt up for any surgery - he is weak and practically 100% blind. What will the CT do?

 We already know he has middle and probably inner ear infection.  


We hope to get clarification ASAP!!!

Thanks

Vivian






HELP!!! Inner and Middle Ear Infection

nobunnyleftbehind@...
 

Dear All


We have a rescued elder bun with diagnosed middle and presumed inner ear infection. This rabbit now has some right side facial paralysis as well as balance problems. 


We are working with one vet who prescribed Baytril. Prior to the recent use of Baytril back in April he had treatments with Osurnia which evidently didnt address the infection.


We think that Baytril is not the best choice. If someone here could respond with their experience in treating middle and inner ear infection.


Also has anyone experienced recovery from paralysis in such a case and with what treatment? 

Is the paralysis indicative of inner ear infection or could middle ear infection also cause paralysis.


Another vet wants to do a CT but we dont know what good that will do as this rabbit isnt up for any surgery - he is weak and practically 100% blind. What will the CT do?

 We already know he has middle and probably inner ear infection.  


We hope to get clarification ASAP!!!

Thanks

Vivian




Re: cellulose insulation as litter?

LT walking
 

My gosh - how informative- I love Etherbun. I read every digest email that I get even when it doesn’t currently figure about any issue I might have with my bun or if I don’t have any knowledge on the issue - I still learn something. Etherbun was so helpful when I had several buns from the same litter who all had health issues.
I don’t Facebook and don’t ever want to. So thank you all for continuing to participate in the email version. Thank you! LT


Re: cellulose insulation as litter?

Mara Hurwitt & Sam Cox
 

Thanks to everyone who replied (see, Etherbun is still alive and well and extremely useful!). Just so you know, the bag of insulation is still sitting in my garage and I had always intended to toss it into the trash.  But I was interested to know if anyone had previously come across people using this insulation as litter, as well as information on the chemical additives, particularly as my gut feeling was that it couldn't be pure recycled paper (as the donor thought) because that would be combustible in extreme heat and also subject to mildew in damp places.

I plan to have a private word with the vets to see if they think the litter might have contributed to the eye ulcer.  I will also let the donor know that she should definitely not use this with her next rabbit.  She doesn't have any rabbits right now, and I'd prefer to talk to her about it when she is ready to consider adopting again, rather than while she's grieving.

Etherbun still rocks!

Thanks,
Mara


-----Original Message-----
From: Christine Norlund
To: 'Mara and Sam'
Sent: Wed, Jul 4, 2018 5:44 pm
Subject: RE: [EtherBun] cellulose insulation as litter?

Hi Mara!!

Ditto what Dave said----get rid of it.

 


Re: cellulose insulation as litter?

bpbhoo
 


Re: cellulose insulation as litter?

Chris Norlund
 

Hi Mara!!

Ditto what Dave said----get rid of it.

 

The dust particles are probably irritating to the lungs and eyes, but maybe no long-range issues?  (heck----we are all familiar with ‘nuisance dust’, and should all be wearing protective eye/breathing gear when we handle hay anyway!)

However what worries me is the fire retardant that gives you time to get out of the house before it starts burning. THAT will have off-gassing fumes even without being exposed to heat. That stuff is toxic to the liver. I believe it is also on the list of chemicals that firefighters have associated with lymphoma (and other work-related acquired cancers). (don’t quote me on that----I’m just thinking about conversations with firefighter friend years ago).

 

Whatever possessed her to use that stuff?  I wonder if someone told her to?  Really would be interesting to have had necropsy info on both of her rabbits, to learn if there were any related issues.  I guess we need to keep this one on the radar and unwary people away from it.

 

Waving ‘hi’ from the other side of the country!

Chris

 

 

 

From: etherbun@... On Behalf Of 'David L. Fisher' dlf@... [etherbun]
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2018 11:08 PM
To: Mara and Sam ; etherbun@...
Subject: Re: [EtherBun] cellulose insulation as litter?

 

 

Hi Mara - GET RID OF IT!!

I got as far as reading that a mask is required when working with this stuff - that's all I needed to read to say "don't use it for your bunnies".  I see that others have also replied, with more in-depth information.  It may be cheaper, but it wasn't created for use as litter and certain things (such as residue/byproducts) were not held to the same standard.

The dust hazard screams volumes about what it should not be used for - and I doubt you want this dust floating around your home either.  :)

Dave

 

On 7/4/2018 12:04 PM, Mara and Sam kabukibun@... [etherbun] wrote:

 

Hi,



I have a question about a product I have never before seen used in a rabbit litter box.  



One of our adopters had to have her 12.5 year old rabbit PTS this week and wants to wait a few months before adopting another.  She offered to donate the supplies she had on hand and yesterday brought me some fresh veggies, a newly opened bag of Oxbow timothy pellets, and a variety of grass hays from Oxbow and Kaytee (she'd be trying to coax her rabbit to eat more hay). She also brought an open bag of GreenFiber R13-R60 Cellulose Blown-in Insulation.  She said it's made of recycled paper and that she buys it at Home Depot for much less that Carefresh or similar paper bedding.  She's been using it for quite a while.



I was a a bit wary about something used for home insulation, thinking it may be treated with chemicals, so I looked up the product specifications. The description says "Fire-resistant treated insulation is made with up to 85% recycled material that meets Class 1 Fire Rating to protect your home; giving you more time to evacuate."  And the installation instructions say to use "Safety eyewear and N95 NIOSH-approved particulate masks such as a 3M model #8210 or #8511 or equivalent for protection against nuisance dust."



I an inclined to toss the bag in the trash, but I wanted to know if anyone else had ever heard of using this product as litter or can tell me if my concerns about potential ill effects are well-founded (beyond the old adage "better safe than sorry'). And when she adopts another rabbit, I want to know whether there's a good scientific/medical reason to tell her not to use this product again.  BTW, her rabbit did not die of respiratory-related disease or a blockage.  Although I'm not sure what her mate died of 3-4 years ago. 



Thanks,

Mara











 


Re: cellulose insulation as litter?

Mara Hurwitt & Sam Cox
 

Thanks.  I specifically googled the MSDS sheet, which didn't come up in my initial search and wasn't readily accessible on the manufacturers' website.  I found the list of chemicals you mentioned.  And I also looked at the potential health effects listed on the safety sheet:

Inhalation:  Slightly irritating to upper respiratory system. Persons with respiratory problems should avoid breathing dust.
Eyes:  Slight irritant. In case of eye contact, flush with water.
Ingestion:  Small amounts are not likely to cause harm. Ingestion of large amounts may cause rash, diarrhea, nausea.
Skin:  Does not normally irritate skin. In case of broken skin, wear gloves and wash dust from skin with soap and plenty of water. Large amounts absorbed into bloodstream may cause rash, skin peeling, diarrhea, nausea, dizziness.
Acute:  None
Chronic:  None
Cancer:  Neither the end product nor any of its components.

Her rabbit had developed an eye ulcer that did not respond to treatment by an excellent rabbit vet, despite trying a series of different drops and ointments over a few months.  I wonder if had anything to do with the "litter" she was using.


-----Original Message-----
From: R vgrvgrvgrvgrvgr@... [etherbun]
To: etherbun
Sent: Wed, Jul 4, 2018 1:44 pm
Subject: Re: [EtherBun] cellulose insulation as litter?

 
 

GreenFiber R13-R60 Cellulose Blown-in Insulation.  

Trash. Normally you can look at the MSDS to see what's in the product. It has chemicals in it to prevent mold and rodents it looks like. Newsprint, Boric Acid, Zinc Sulfate, Ammonium Sulfate, and Distillate Mineral Oil. 


On 07/04/2018 09:04 AM, Mara and Sam kabukibun@... [etherbun] wrote:


Re: cellulose insulation as litter?

bpbhoo
 

hi mara, i would not use that insulation. it sounds like it has fire-retardant chemicals which are dangerous. sha


Re: cellulose insulation as litter?

R
 

Trash. Normally you can look at the MSDS to see what's in the product. It has chemicals in it to prevent mold and rodents it looks like. Newsprint, Boric Acid, Zinc Sulfate, Ammonium Sulfate, and Distillate Mineral Oil. 


On 07/04/2018 09:04 AM, Mara and Sam kabukibun@... [etherbun] wrote:
 
Hi,

I have a question about a product I have never before seen used in a rabbit litter box.  

One of our adopters had to have her 12.5 year old rabbit PTS this week and wants to wait a few months before adopting another.  She offered to donate the supplies she had on hand and yesterday brought me some fresh veggies, a newly opened bag of Oxbow timothy pellets, and a variety of grass hays from Oxbow and Kaytee (she'd be trying to coax her rabbit to eat more hay). She also brought an open bag of GreenFiber R13-R60 Cellulose Blown-in Insulation.  She said it's made of recycled paper and that she buys it at Home Depot for much less that Carefresh or similar paper bedding.  She's been using it for quite a while.



cellulose insulation as litter?

Mara Hurwitt & Sam Cox
 

Hi,

I have a question about a product I have never before seen used in a rabbit litter box.  

One of our adopters had to have her 12.5 year old rabbit PTS this week and wants to wait a few months before adopting another.  She offered to donate the supplies she had on hand and yesterday brought me some fresh veggies, a newly opened bag of Oxbow timothy pellets, and a variety of grass hays from Oxbow and Kaytee (she'd be trying to coax her rabbit to eat more hay). She also brought an open bag of GreenFiber R13-R60 Cellulose Blown-in Insulation.  She said it's made of recycled paper and that she buys it at Home Depot for much less that Carefresh or similar paper bedding.  She's been using it for quite a while.

I was a a bit wary about something used for home insulation, thinking it may be treated with chemicals, so I looked up the product specifications. The description says "Fire-resistant treated insulation is made with up to 85% recycled material that meets Class 1 Fire Rating to protect your home; giving you more time to evacuate."  And the installation instructions say to use "Safety eyewear and N95 NIOSH-approved particulate masks such as a 3M model #8210 or #8511 or equivalent for protection against nuisance dust."

I an inclined to toss the bag in the trash, but I wanted to know if anyone else had ever heard of using this product as litter or can tell me if my concerns about potential ill effects are well-founded (beyond the old adage "better safe than sorry'). And when she adopts another rabbit, I want to know whether there's a good scientific/medical reason to tell her not to use this product again.  BTW, her rabbit did not die of respiratory-related disease or a blockage.  Although I'm not sure what her mate died of 3-4 years ago. 

Thanks,
Mara






Re: cellulose insulation as litter?

David L. Fisher
 

Hi Mara - GET RID OF IT!!

I got as far as reading that a mask is required when working with this stuff - that's all I needed to read to say "don't use it for your bunnies".  I see that others have also replied, with more in-depth information.  It may be cheaper, but it wasn't created for use as litter and certain things (such as residue/byproducts) were not held to the same standard.

The dust hazard screams volumes about what it should not be used for - and I doubt you want this dust floating around your home either.  :)

Dave


On 7/4/2018 12:04 PM, Mara and Sam kabukibun@... [etherbun] wrote:
 
Hi,

I have a question about a product I have never before seen used in a rabbit litter box.  

One of our adopters had to have her 12.5 year old rabbit PTS this week and wants to wait a few months before adopting another.  She offered to donate the supplies she had on hand and yesterday brought me some fresh veggies, a newly opened bag of Oxbow timothy pellets, and a variety of grass hays from Oxbow and Kaytee (she'd be trying to coax her rabbit to eat more hay). She also brought an open bag of GreenFiber R13-R60 Cellulose Blown-in Insulation.  She said it's made of recycled paper and that she buys it at Home Depot for much less that Carefresh or similar paper bedding.  She's been using it for quite a while.

I was a a bit wary about something used for home insulation, thinking it may be treated with chemicals, so I looked up the product specifications. The description says "Fire-resistant treated insulation is made with up to 85% recycled material that meets Class 1 Fire Rating to protect your home; giving you more time to evacuate."  And the installation instructions say to use "Safety eyewear and N95 NIOSH-approved particulate masks such as a 3M model #8210 or #8511 or equivalent for protection against nuisance dust."

I an inclined to toss the bag in the trash, but I wanted to know if anyone else had ever heard of using this product as litter or can tell me if my concerns about potential ill effects are well-founded (beyond the old adage "better safe than sorry'). And when she adopts another rabbit, I want to know whether there's a good scientific/medical reason to tell her not to use this product again.  BTW, her rabbit did not die of respiratory-related disease or a blockage.  Although I'm not sure what her mate died of 3-4 years ago. 

Thanks,
Mara







Re: Simethicone dose

Leslie B
 

Mine will eat the mint flavored or the cherry flavored. They actually love them!


Re: Simethicone dose

bpbhoo
 

my percy used to go into stasis a lot. realized later that it was related to his heavy shedding. brushing should help your bunny.  also, not everyone believes in this treatment but but it worked for my bunnies -  i would give them one dose of 1cc (sometimes less) of extra virgin olive oil and that would help them out of stasis.  good luck! sha


Re: Simethicone dose

mary
 

One of my bunnies was frequently afflicted with gas. I recall one time I ended up giving him 5 droppersful of liquid infant gas med. After experimenting with his eating, I removed all fresh food, i.e. greens, fruit which seemed to solve the problem.


Re: Simethicone dose

Nona Cleland
 

My buns will readily eat a mint-flavored simethicone tablet--unless they are in serious stasis already. Saves wear and tear on me and them.


Re: Simethicone dose

David L. Fisher
 

Hi Jean -

Simethicone is not a drug (it's a surfactant, which works on the surface tension of gas bubbles to help them coalesce into a larger bubble which is easier to pass), so you don't have to worry about the dose as much as with medications.  If you give it when it's not required, there's no harm - and if you give too much there's no risk like with drugs. 

Per dosing, directly from rabbit.org, https://rabbit.org/chapters/se-pennsylvania/GIStasis.htm: "Pediatric Simethicone 1cc (20mg/ml suspension) can be given orally as often as every hour for 3 hours and then 1cc every 3-8 hours"

Gently tummy massage also helps and is more immediate in effect (always moving toward the rear, to help the gas find the exit).  I had one bunny with gas so loud I could hear it from across the room.  I immediately gave her 1ml of simethicone and started tummy massage, and very quickly she farted (which surprised her enough for her to spin 180 degrees) and I kept massaging and she farted again (causing her to spin another 180 degrees to her original position) - then she was a lot more comfortable, just like that (your mileage may vary).  I gave her another dose an hour later, and then followed a regular dosing for the rest of the day, then she didn't need it again for that episode.

I think this is a direct quote from Dana Krempels (or someone else who wrote for rabbit.org and likely a member of etherbun too) - "a farting bunny is a happy bunny"  :)

As for the shedding, things like that are triggered by a change in seasons, and temperature is only one of the triggers - longer daylight cycles, changes in air density and pressure, and a host of other conditions also signal plants and animals of changing seasons.  Monty is very comfortable in a nicely refrigerated home here, and he's shedding a lot too (I've collected quite a bit of fur from the brush lately).  :)

Hope this helps

Dave





On 6/30/18 7:03 AM, jeberly@... [etherbun] wrote:
 

Hello,


I know that Simethicone is often helpful to give a rabbit if they begin to have problems with stasis.    Last evening Hopscotch displayed breathing that was faster than normal and did not want to eat her greens (not normal at all).   I gave her a tiny bit of simethicone before bed and she is fine this morning.    What is then proper dose in ml for a Rex bunny who weights about 4 pounds?    

My second question is Hopscotch is shedding a lot here of late and she never had a shed cycle like this before.   She lives in then house with A/C 24/7 so is not subjected to the heat.    Just wondering why the shedding when it has not happen before.   Could it be a health issue that is causing this?

Thanks,

Jean, Hopscotch and Popcorn


Re: Simethicone dose

R
 


From HRS's Dr. Mary Cotter: "It doesn't leave the rabbits intestinal tract, it doesn't leave the lumen of the intestinal tract so you can't really overdose it, but we usually give about one milliliter, or one cc per hour for three hours straight. One dose an hour later, a second dose a hour later, a third dose. If there's no difference by the third dose, a difference isn't probably going to happen from that." - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbyC6CWbm5M


On 06/30/2018 04:03 AM, jeberly@... [etherbun] wrote:
 

Hello,


I know that Simethicone is often helpful to give a rabbit if they begin to have problems with stasis.    Last evening Hopscotch displayed breathing that was faster than normal and did not want to eat her greens (not normal at all).   I gave her a tiny bit of simethicone before bed and she is fine this morning.    What is then proper dose in ml for a Rex bunny who weights about 4 pounds?    

My second question is Hopscotch is shedding a lot here of late and she never had a shed cycle like this before.   She lives in then house with A/C 24/7 so is not subjected to the heat.    Just wondering why the shedding when it has not happen before.   Could it be a health issue that is causing this?

Thanks,

Jean, Hopscotch and Popcorn

Posted by: jeberly@...



let die or risk a trip to the vet

Jean Silva
 

I too would take the bunny to the vet. I have never yet had a bunny that died from a trip to the vet or elsewhere. While a vet may not be able to save the bunnies life if it is indeed his time, a vet can help you make his passing more comfortable and less stressful. For example, if it is a heart problem, it is possible that the accumulation of fluid is making breathing more difficult. Medications can reduce the fluid and make breathing easier.

Jean Silva
BUNS
Santa Barbara CA


Simethicone dose

jeberly@...
 

Hello,

I know that Simethicone is often helpful to give a rabbit if they begin to have problems with stasis.    Last evening Hopscotch displayed breathing that was faster than normal and did not want to eat her greens (not normal at all).   I gave her a tiny bit of simethicone before bed and she is fine this morning.    What is then proper dose in ml for a Rex bunny who weights about 4 pounds?    

My second question is Hopscotch is shedding a lot here of late and she never had a shed cycle like this before.   She lives in then house with A/C 24/7 so is not subjected to the heat.    Just wondering why the shedding when it has not happen before.   Could it be a health issue that is causing this?

Thanks,

Jean, Hopscotch and Popcorn

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