Date   

Re: Lily

David L. Fisher
 

It isn't even a question of Monty right now, and she already showed some disgruntlement about Lily running around.  Lily now just hides, pretty much all the time.  There's no vibe right now as there is no contact between her and Monty, or me for that matter. 

Lily's former family rescued her 3 years ago - someone abandoned her outside the PetSmart, and since they don't take strays, the family took her home with the intent of getting her adopted.  They did get her adopted to someone, but their rabbit got aggressive with her, and so the went back to the same family.  They also had 2 cats and a dog, and told me that Lily would run right up to the dog and then run away, which they thought was a sign of aggression.  I think it might just have been her asserting her role as "king of the hill" (as rabbits do in a multi-species home).

That family left her here without so much as a goodbye, and they brought all of her supplies, and I haven't heard from them since, so I'm guessing they wanted to wash their hands of the whole idea of having a rabbit (and I know her only vet visit was for a spay last fall).

I've had her since June 3, and I know that's not a lot of time, but I've never seen a bunny withdraw the way she has - usually they get more and more comfortable, even if Monty isn't being friendly.  Lily doesn't even come out for exercise, she just hides in the box and tries to stay away from me as well.  I can't even pet her now, without making her tense up, so I think she needs yet another fresh start.  Sigh...



On 6/19/2021 5:38 PM, Nancy Ainsworth via groups.io wrote:
Hi Dave,
Sorry to hear this.! Does Monty hate having Lily around and the vibe is just no good between them even as neighbors? Was Lily being fostered when you adopted her? How long have you had her now?
Nancy


-----Original Message-----
From: David L. Fisher <dlf@...>
To: main@etherbun.groups.io <main@etherbun.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 18, 2021 9:03 pm
Subject: [Etherbun Main] Lily

So I gave the newcomer the name Lily, and I'm trying to get her placed
at the rescue, since she is not adjusting well here (and I hope the
prior introductions didn't make things worse).  She now spends all of
her time in a hidey box, she withdraws from me when I try to pet her,
and my overall read is that she has a broken heart and she's going
further into her shell.  We've had some snuggle sessions and she will
sit quietly for petting, but I wonder if she enjoys it, tolerates it, or
even stays put due to fear (tho her breathing doesn't indicate fear).

She's eating okay, but she shows less and less interest in greens (which
I find odd).  I think all things considered, she is protesting being
here - I got a pic of her lying down with "happy feet" but that was only
the first night, and then I think she started to realize she's staying
her longer than she thought.

I haven't been able to shake the feeling of sadness for her, and I can
feel her heartbreak.  I've never rescued a bunny before and had such a
feeling, and I think she'll do a lot better being around a bunch of
other rabbits - she's a great bonding candidate, but Monty is most
decidedly NOT.  I don't think she ever got over the failed bond with
Tidbit, but I don't know.  I DO know that Lily is used to interacting
with other animals, and she's not getting that with Monty.  I don't even
want to try another intro at this point unless Lily becomes more
receptive to my presence, but things seem to have gone in the opposite
direction.

Dave







Re: Lily

Nancy Ainsworth
 

Hi Dave,
Sorry to hear this.! Does Monty hate having Lily around and the vibe is just no good between them even as neighbors? Was Lily being fostered when you adopted her? How long have you had her now?
Nancy


-----Original Message-----
From: David L. Fisher <dlf@...>
To: main@etherbun.groups.io <main@etherbun.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 18, 2021 9:03 pm
Subject: [Etherbun Main] Lily

So I gave the newcomer the name Lily, and I'm trying to get her placed
at the rescue, since she is not adjusting well here (and I hope the
prior introductions didn't make things worse).  She now spends all of
her time in a hidey box, she withdraws from me when I try to pet her,
and my overall read is that she has a broken heart and she's going
further into her shell.  We've had some snuggle sessions and she will
sit quietly for petting, but I wonder if she enjoys it, tolerates it, or
even stays put due to fear (tho her breathing doesn't indicate fear).

She's eating okay, but she shows less and less interest in greens (which
I find odd).  I think all things considered, she is protesting being
here - I got a pic of her lying down with "happy feet" but that was only
the first night, and then I think she started to realize she's staying
her longer than she thought.

I haven't been able to shake the feeling of sadness for her, and I can
feel her heartbreak.  I've never rescued a bunny before and had such a
feeling, and I think she'll do a lot better being around a bunch of
other rabbits - she's a great bonding candidate, but Monty is most
decidedly NOT.  I don't think she ever got over the failed bond with
Tidbit, but I don't know.  I DO know that Lily is used to interacting
with other animals, and she's not getting that with Monty.  I don't even
want to try another intro at this point unless Lily becomes more
receptive to my presence, but things seem to have gone in the opposite
direction.

Dave







Lily

David L. Fisher
 

So I gave the newcomer the name Lily, and I'm trying to get her placed at the rescue, since she is not adjusting well here (and I hope the prior introductions didn't make things worse).  She now spends all of her time in a hidey box, she withdraws from me when I try to pet her, and my overall read is that she has a broken heart and she's going further into her shell.  We've had some snuggle sessions and she will sit quietly for petting, but I wonder if she enjoys it, tolerates it, or even stays put due to fear (tho her breathing doesn't indicate fear).

She's eating okay, but she shows less and less interest in greens (which I find odd).  I think all things considered, she is protesting being here - I got a pic of her lying down with "happy feet" but that was only the first night, and then I think she started to realize she's staying her longer than she thought.

I haven't been able to shake the feeling of sadness for her, and I can feel her heartbreak.  I've never rescued a bunny before and had such a feeling, and I think she'll do a lot better being around a bunch of other rabbits - she's a great bonding candidate, but Monty is most decidedly NOT.  I don't think she ever got over the failed bond with Tidbit, but I don't know.  I DO know that Lily is used to interacting with other animals, and she's not getting that with Monty.  I don't even want to try another intro at this point unless Lily becomes more receptive to my presence, but things seem to have gone in the opposite direction.

Dave


Re: leash and harness

Meg Brown
 


Hi Veronica,
     Personally, I would never use a leash and harness.   You might be interested in this post I saved from the NYC chapter of HRS.
     Wishing you and your bunny all the best,
        Meg

On Jun 17, 2021, at 1:59 PM, veronica torres <veronicaclairetorres@...> wrote:

my rabbit loves being outside. on summer mornings when the weather isn’t quite too hot yet, i bring her out with me on my front porch and let her roam free and lie down. she likes it. i also have a pink stroller that i put her in and i roll her down the sidewalk with me down town or in pet friendly stores. she likes it. but i was eager to try out a leash and a vest for her. she doesn’t like it… now, the experiences that i have had in the past have been bad. i had a leash that was just rope material with no vest. i remember her running with it on, and the rope getting tangled under her feet and her getting stressed out, just a bad experience for her. but i have never given a leash and vest a try. i was wondering if that could make a difference or if she might like it, so she won’t get tangled up. but sometimes she just does not want to walk around and just sits there and i used to end up trying to drag her around (i know i should not have done that). but do you guys think i should give it a try or just not bother to waste my money? i want her to be comfortable and have fun, but i dont know if it being a vest or not will make a difference in how she feels about it. 

thanks,

veronica 
--
Veronica.T🎀


Re: leash and harness

veronica torres
 



On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 13:59 veronica torres via groups.io <veronicaclairetorres=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
my rabbit loves being outside. on summer mornings when the weather isn’t quite too hot yet, i bring her out with me on my front porch and let her roam free and lie down. she likes it. i also have a pink stroller that i put her in and i roll her down the sidewalk with me down town or in pet friendly stores. she likes it. but i was eager to try out a leash and a vest for her. she doesn’t like it… now, the experiences that i have had in the past have been bad. i had a leash that was just rope material with no vest. i remember her running with it on, and the rope getting tangled under her feet and her getting stressed out, just a bad experience for her. but i have never given a leash and vest a try. i was wondering if that could make a difference or if she might like it, so she won’t get tangled up. but sometimes she just does not want to walk around and just sits there and i used to end up trying to drag her around (i know i should not have done that). but do you guys think i should give it a try or just not bother to waste my money? i want her to be comfortable and have fun, but i dont know if it being a vest or not will make a difference in how she feels about it.

REPONSE : and if i should take a stab at a velcro vest and harness, what size or product would work best with a dwarf rabbit? can anyone recommend a product to me please? and most importantly, how do i leash train her? 


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--
Veronica.T🎀


leash and harness

veronica torres
 

my rabbit loves being outside. on summer mornings when the weather isn’t quite too hot yet, i bring her out with me on my front porch and let her roam free and lie down. she likes it. i also have a pink stroller that i put her in and i roll her down the sidewalk with me down town or in pet friendly stores. she likes it. but i was eager to try out a leash and a vest for her. she doesn’t like it… now, the experiences that i have had in the past have been bad. i had a leash that was just rope material with no vest. i remember her running with it on, and the rope getting tangled under her feet and her getting stressed out, just a bad experience for her. but i have never given a leash and vest a try. i was wondering if that could make a difference or if she might like it, so she won’t get tangled up. but sometimes she just does not want to walk around and just sits there and i used to end up trying to drag her around (i know i should not have done that). but do you guys think i should give it a try or just not bother to waste my money? i want her to be comfortable and have fun, but i dont know if it being a vest or not will make a difference in how she feels about it. 

thanks,

veronica 
--
Veronica.T🎀


Re: progress?

pack_lisa
 

Dave,
The easiest bond I ever did was when I just put a fence between bunnies and let them go at their own pace. It took 6 months before they were snuggling through the bars. That's when I took down the gate. And they were never separated again! So easy! 🙂
Lisa


From: main@etherbun.groups.io <main@etherbun.groups.io> on behalf of David L. Fisher <dlf@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 9:28 PM
To: main@etherbun.groups.io <main@etherbun.groups.io>
Subject: [Etherbun Main] progress?
 
I let the newcomer out to run around last night, and made sure that
Monty couldn't get too aggressive (and she seems to be inclined to nip
through the x-pen fence).  So far, Monty has ignored her enough that I
think it's a good sign.

Interestingly, not a single territorial marker (no poop, no pee) from
her exploring, and also just sitting and calmly grooming herself.  Later
on, I noticed that Monty went around and licked the carpet everywhere
the newcomer was - and she also didn't leave any territorial markers.

I know it's early on, but I think this might be a good sign, except for
the small displays of aggression.  I'm hoping that Monty will get used
to her sharing the space, and come to accept her.  She is not hyper like
the other bunnies I had here (which might annoy Monty) - she is very
mellow, and I'm hoping she'll come out of her shell.  When she's in her
pen, she invariably is in her hidey box when I'm around but will hang
out visible and Monty will hang out so she can see her.

I hope this is an encouraging sign - it would be really nice if Monty
had a friend, but so far I still can't tell if she lost interest after
the other rescues that were here.

Dave







Re: progress?

David L. Fisher
 

I know.  One would think I would have used more of that knowledge, huh?  This was rather soon to try any kind of "now you can see each other, but not get at each other" but it did give me an idea of where Monty's "starting point" would be regarding her acceptance of another bunny hopping around.  Believe it or not, I have successfully bonded bunnies before (and Tamari got 3 mates, the last of which was there to see her off when her time came).

Monty's space is a big x-pen in the living room, and the newcomer was outside of that space but still in the living room, which was not the best idea in hindsight.  The newcomer has a pen in the dining room, and there is tile separating them, so Monty won't go up to her pen directly. 

I do sit right there and make sure that both bunnies are safe, and I pay particular attention to Monty's posturing as she is the one who will feel like there's an intruder.  In the past, I've put bunnies in pens adjacent to each other so they can get used to each other, but the layout here doesn't really allow for that.  The kitchen and dining room are connected and probably more of the dining room setup, and the hall has been used by both bunnies, so I don't know what they will consider neutral, but the hallway might work better.  My bedroom isn't a good neutral territory (at least not in my opinion), and the other bedroom is a music room with a LOT of stuff that is vulnerable, and I'd have to carry both bunnies into that room to try bonding.

Funny how much I know about this, and yet how little knowledge I actually demonstrated by letting the newcomer run around in the living room outside Monty's pen.  I'll try another route next time.

Dave



On 6/10/2021 12:26 AM, Chris Norlund wrote:
Hi Dave,
You really *need* to only allow them to share a NEUTRAL space together, and not have any access to going behind enemy lines into the other one's space!!  Of course Monty would take extreme offense if an interloper is in his(her?) space.  That was inevitable, and preventable. 
Rabbit Rule # 10 --- "My space!!  Enter at your own risk!!"

Start over.  Re-Boot!!    Create a space that neither one of them has ownership of. Kitchens are usually a good one, and floors are usually not carpeted. Smooth floors even bring an element of equalizing the situation.   I try to give the rabbits **at least**  about 9sq ft/rabbit for a bonding arena.  (and that is a ratio that works for Hoppy Hours too ---- with MANY rabbits having a giant play-date).  Too small of a space, or no where to get away and take a break from the other rabbit can be a recipe for intimidation and trouble.

If it was my rabbits......:
I sit them side by side (SNUGGLY!) between my knees on the floor, and then spend about 30 minutes with them cheek-to-cheek, while I am petting both of them and getting each other's smells on the other one.  They are so close together, and noses facing forward---so there is no opportunity to bite the other one.  That is how their first encounter goes when I am bonding rabbits.  Lots of positive stroking, immersion into each other's space and smells, CALM and very controlled and very equalized, and the threat of a stranger is decreased.

The next step I take is to allow them to sort of face each other (not centered straight-on because of their blind spot), with a decent handful of hay and good sprinkling of cilantro in it in front of them --to share.  Eating together can be a socializing experience, and a positive experience.  The bonding experience MUST be a positive one to progress, and if it becomes aggressive---it needs to be diffused or a diversion, or stop all together.  Sometimes just standing over them loudly saying 'NO' can be enough.  I stand right next to them when they are doing this eating exercise, so I can reach down and subdue any hint of aggression before it can escalate. 

Once they have eaten, and realize that the other rabbit probably isn't going to instantly attack them, they start sniffing and hopping around in the enclosure, and may come closer for a look-sniff at the other one.  Just keep reminding them that YOU are there by your dominant presence. Put on your Hulk-Hogan costume.  There are a lot of things you can do to keep them focusing partly on you, and not each other so much.  It can actually be entertaining if you get creative.   I've experimented with quite a few diversions with interesting successes, and even done public demos of bonding tricks that help to keep things low-drama. 

Those are some of my best basic bonding secrets.   
Set the stage for success:  
*Middle of afternoon during normal naptime is when they tend to be more chill.  
*Make sure they are NOT hungry or thirsty when you start the encounter (hungry rabbits can tend to be more aggressive, and 'hangry'). 
*Have some neutral new 'toys', boxes, 'props' spread out in the bonding arena when they are moving about more freely. 
*Have a very large litterbox that they could share comfortably, with plenty of hay in it. (make sure the litterbox is clean and neutral of urine smells!!)  If you don't have a huge litterbox, or mortar-mixing pan etc---just use a big open-top cardboard box that is short sided like a litterbox. Costco has big produce boxes that the sides can be trimmed down.
* Don't allow yourself to get distracted, or someone could get hurt.  Allow yourself plenty of time to focus on them only.  I don't even have my cell phone within reach. Maybe a bottle of water is all.

  Rabbits are very predictable, and they nearly always do things for a reason.  Understanding and anticipating their behaviors can be a real tool in your favor.  Body language can also be very telling about their next move.  So being fully engaged and not distracted is really important.

Good luck!!  Take your time, don't rush things......
Chris

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:27 PM David L. Fisher <dlf@...> wrote:
Oops, I may have spoken too soon.  I let the newcomer out again (as I
was writing the last message) and Monty was in her pen, but lunging at
her when she got close, trying to claw and/or bite her.  In fact, Monty
scared her enough that she made a puddle right there, one of the times. 
So... the two bunnies have met, and Monty is still true-to-form about
other bunnies in her home, so we'll see how things go.

I have to go back to MA in July for a wedding, so we have until then to
try a bond, unless the newcomer gets a space at the rescue so she can be
adopted.  Obviously I want what's best for both buns.

Dave



On 6/9/2021 9:28 PM, David L. Fisher wrote:
> I let the newcomer out to run around last night, and made sure that
> Monty couldn't get too aggressive (and she seems to be inclined to nip
> through the x-pen fence).  So far, Monty has ignored her enough that I
> think it's a good sign.
>
> Interestingly, not a single territorial marker (no poop, no pee) from
> her exploring, and also just sitting and calmly grooming herself. 
> Later on, I noticed that Monty went around and licked the carpet
> everywhere the newcomer was - and she also didn't leave any
> territorial markers.
>
> I know it's early on, but I think this might be a good sign, except
> for the small displays of aggression.  I'm hoping that Monty will get
> used to her sharing the space, and come to accept her.  She is not
> hyper like the other bunnies I had here (which might annoy Monty) -
> she is very mellow, and I'm hoping she'll come out of her shell.  When
> she's in her pen, she invariably is in her hidey box when I'm around
> but will hang out visible and Monty will hang out so she can see her.
>
> I hope this is an encouraging sign - it would be really nice if Monty
> had a friend, but so far I still can't tell if she lost interest after
> the other rescues that were here.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







--

 
Chris Norlund,
House Rabbit Educator 
.........
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Re: progress?

John Gee
 


Hi David,

I'm glad you are rescuing rabbits and giving them a great home. When two rabbits meet in the space one calls home they need to be kept separated .  They should be setup in two pens near  each other with open neutral space between . They can see each other while in their pens. You can try two    quick  bonding items. Place the two rabbits in a cardboard  box and let them settle in while being placed in the back seat of a car being driven. The vibration from the car should force them to sit quietly next to each other. The two rabbits can be placed in a dry bathtub. The tub surface will be slick and difficult to move on. The rabbits will stay next to each other .These two methods should be used with other bonding  methods with the rabbits in a room / space together. 

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 09:27:01 PM CDT, David L. Fisher <dlf@...> wrote:


Oops, I may have spoken too soon.  I let the newcomer out again (as I
was writing the last message) and Monty was in her pen, but lunging at
her when she got close, trying to claw and/or bite her.  In fact, Monty
scared her enough that she made a puddle right there, one of the times. 
So... the two bunnies have met, and Monty is still true-to-form about
other bunnies in her home, so we'll see how things go.

I have to go back to MA in July for a wedding, so we have until then to
try a bond, unless the newcomer gets a space at the rescue so she can be
adopted.  Obviously I want what's best for both buns.

Dave



On 6/9/2021 9:28 PM, David L. Fisher wrote:
> I let the newcomer out to run around last night, and made sure that
> Monty couldn't get too aggressive (and she seems to be inclined to nip
> through the x-pen fence).  So far, Monty has ignored her enough that I
> think it's a good sign.
>
> Interestingly, not a single territorial marker (no poop, no pee) from
> her exploring, and also just sitting and calmly grooming herself. 
> Later on, I noticed that Monty went around and licked the carpet
> everywhere the newcomer was - and she also didn't leave any
> territorial markers.
>
> I know it's early on, but I think this might be a good sign, except
> for the small displays of aggression.  I'm hoping that Monty will get
> used to her sharing the space, and come to accept her.  She is not
> hyper like the other bunnies I had here (which might annoy Monty) -
> she is very mellow, and I'm hoping she'll come out of her shell.  When
> she's in her pen, she invariably is in her hidey box when I'm around
> but will hang out visible and Monty will hang out so she can see her.
>
> I hope this is an encouraging sign - it would be really nice if Monty
> had a friend, but so far I still can't tell if she lost interest after
> the other rescues that were here.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Litter box using

John Gee
 

Hi Judi,

I'm glad you have a rabbit. Most rabbits will poop around a room. They believe it is their space. It appears your female rabbit 
is free roam. A rabbit needs a space to call "home ". A 2 foot  by4 foot  exercise ( X- pen ) works well setup in a room. . One section of the pen can be used and operated as a door. The X-pen offers security . Setup in a corner allows for two secure sides. 

On Thursday, June 10, 2021, 09:44:47 AM CDT, Judi Pariseau <judi.pariseau@...> wrote:


Hi, all- we have a 4 year old girl, Bernadette, who is only using her litter box about half the time. The rest of the time she will pick a spot in her room and use that. We’ve tried moving the box to the place she chooses, but she just moves to a new spot- currently it’s the lowest shelf of an old bookcase. I put a puppy pad and newspaper on it to absorb everything. It isn’t wide enough to put a box on, so we’re really stuck this time. Any thoughts on how to get her to just use her bin? She’s healthy and happy, eats well, is really lively and affectionate, an all round great bunny, I’m just out of ideas. Thanks, Judith






Re: progress?

mary
 

My current two bucks are age 5. Boo was the only bunny at age 6 months and I figured he needed a friend and 6 months later got tiny "Baby", a not quite 2 lb beast (Lionhead) that tried to dominate Boo right away. I kept them apart because of fighting but letting each have its own time out loose and able to go sniff and show aggression to the other through the crate bars. Nothing bad, they never injured the other. After about nine months I saw kisses through the bars and Baby would lower his head to accept the affection. At that point I let them loose together, nothing awful happened and now they are best friends, inseparable. Bunnies usually work out their emotions, fears.


Litter box using

Judi Pariseau
 

Hi, all- we have a 4 year old girl, Bernadette, who is only using her litter box about half the time. The rest of the time she will pick a spot in her room and use that. We’ve tried moving the box to the place she chooses, but she just moves to a new spot- currently it’s the lowest shelf of an old bookcase. I put a puppy pad and newspaper on it to absorb everything. It isn’t wide enough to put a box on, so we’re really stuck this time. Any thoughts on how to get her to just use her bin? She’s healthy and happy, eats well, is really lively and affectionate, an all round great bunny, I’m just out of ideas. Thanks, Judith


Re: progress?

Chris Norlund
 

Hi Dave,
You really *need* to only allow them to share a NEUTRAL space together, and not have any access to going behind enemy lines into the other one's space!!  Of course Monty would take extreme offense if an interloper is in his(her?) space.  That was inevitable, and preventable. 
Rabbit Rule # 10 --- "My space!!  Enter at your own risk!!"

Start over.  Re-Boot!!    Create a space that neither one of them has ownership of. Kitchens are usually a good one, and floors are usually not carpeted. Smooth floors even bring an element of equalizing the situation.   I try to give the rabbits **at least**  about 9sq ft/rabbit for a bonding arena.  (and that is a ratio that works for Hoppy Hours too ---- with MANY rabbits having a giant play-date).  Too small of a space, or no where to get away and take a break from the other rabbit can be a recipe for intimidation and trouble.

If it was my rabbits......:
I sit them side by side (SNUGGLY!) between my knees on the floor, and then spend about 30 minutes with them cheek-to-cheek, while I am petting both of them and getting each other's smells on the other one.  They are so close together, and noses facing forward---so there is no opportunity to bite the other one.  That is how their first encounter goes when I am bonding rabbits.  Lots of positive stroking, immersion into each other's space and smells, CALM and very controlled and very equalized, and the threat of a stranger is decreased.

The next step I take is to allow them to sort of face each other (not centered straight-on because of their blind spot), with a decent handful of hay and good sprinkling of cilantro in it in front of them --to share.  Eating together can be a socializing experience, and a positive experience.  The bonding experience MUST be a positive one to progress, and if it becomes aggressive---it needs to be diffused or a diversion, or stop all together.  Sometimes just standing over them loudly saying 'NO' can be enough.  I stand right next to them when they are doing this eating exercise, so I can reach down and subdue any hint of aggression before it can escalate. 

Once they have eaten, and realize that the other rabbit probably isn't going to instantly attack them, they start sniffing and hopping around in the enclosure, and may come closer for a look-sniff at the other one.  Just keep reminding them that YOU are there by your dominant presence. Put on your Hulk-Hogan costume.  There are a lot of things you can do to keep them focusing partly on you, and not each other so much.  It can actually be entertaining if you get creative.   I've experimented with quite a few diversions with interesting successes, and even done public demos of bonding tricks that help to keep things low-drama. 

Those are some of my best basic bonding secrets.   
Set the stage for success:  
*Middle of afternoon during normal naptime is when they tend to be more chill.  
*Make sure they are NOT hungry or thirsty when you start the encounter (hungry rabbits can tend to be more aggressive, and 'hangry'). 
*Have some neutral new 'toys', boxes, 'props' spread out in the bonding arena when they are moving about more freely. 
*Have a very large litterbox that they could share comfortably, with plenty of hay in it. (make sure the litterbox is clean and neutral of urine smells!!)  If you don't have a huge litterbox, or mortar-mixing pan etc---just use a big open-top cardboard box that is short sided like a litterbox. Costco has big produce boxes that the sides can be trimmed down.
* Don't allow yourself to get distracted, or someone could get hurt.  Allow yourself plenty of time to focus on them only.  I don't even have my cell phone within reach. Maybe a bottle of water is all.

  Rabbits are very predictable, and they nearly always do things for a reason.  Understanding and anticipating their behaviors can be a real tool in your favor.  Body language can also be very telling about their next move.  So being fully engaged and not distracted is really important.

Good luck!!  Take your time, don't rush things......
Chris

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:27 PM David L. Fisher <dlf@...> wrote:
Oops, I may have spoken too soon.  I let the newcomer out again (as I
was writing the last message) and Monty was in her pen, but lunging at
her when she got close, trying to claw and/or bite her.  In fact, Monty
scared her enough that she made a puddle right there, one of the times. 
So... the two bunnies have met, and Monty is still true-to-form about
other bunnies in her home, so we'll see how things go.

I have to go back to MA in July for a wedding, so we have until then to
try a bond, unless the newcomer gets a space at the rescue so she can be
adopted.  Obviously I want what's best for both buns.

Dave



On 6/9/2021 9:28 PM, David L. Fisher wrote:
> I let the newcomer out to run around last night, and made sure that
> Monty couldn't get too aggressive (and she seems to be inclined to nip
> through the x-pen fence).  So far, Monty has ignored her enough that I
> think it's a good sign.
>
> Interestingly, not a single territorial marker (no poop, no pee) from
> her exploring, and also just sitting and calmly grooming herself. 
> Later on, I noticed that Monty went around and licked the carpet
> everywhere the newcomer was - and she also didn't leave any
> territorial markers.
>
> I know it's early on, but I think this might be a good sign, except
> for the small displays of aggression.  I'm hoping that Monty will get
> used to her sharing the space, and come to accept her.  She is not
> hyper like the other bunnies I had here (which might annoy Monty) -
> she is very mellow, and I'm hoping she'll come out of her shell.  When
> she's in her pen, she invariably is in her hidey box when I'm around
> but will hang out visible and Monty will hang out so she can see her.
>
> I hope this is an encouraging sign - it would be really nice if Monty
> had a friend, but so far I still can't tell if she lost interest after
> the other rescues that were here.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







--

 
Chris Norlund,
House Rabbit Educator 
.........
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Re: progress?

David L. Fisher
 

Oops, I may have spoken too soon.  I let the newcomer out again (as I was writing the last message) and Monty was in her pen, but lunging at her when she got close, trying to claw and/or bite her.  In fact, Monty scared her enough that she made a puddle right there, one of the times.  So... the two bunnies have met, and Monty is still true-to-form about other bunnies in her home, so we'll see how things go.

I have to go back to MA in July for a wedding, so we have until then to try a bond, unless the newcomer gets a space at the rescue so she can be adopted.  Obviously I want what's best for both buns.

Dave

On 6/9/2021 9:28 PM, David L. Fisher wrote:
I let the newcomer out to run around last night, and made sure that Monty couldn't get too aggressive (and she seems to be inclined to nip through the x-pen fence).  So far, Monty has ignored her enough that I think it's a good sign.

Interestingly, not a single territorial marker (no poop, no pee) from her exploring, and also just sitting and calmly grooming herself.  Later on, I noticed that Monty went around and licked the carpet everywhere the newcomer was - and she also didn't leave any territorial markers.

I know it's early on, but I think this might be a good sign, except for the small displays of aggression.  I'm hoping that Monty will get used to her sharing the space, and come to accept her.  She is not hyper like the other bunnies I had here (which might annoy Monty) - she is very mellow, and I'm hoping she'll come out of her shell.  When she's in her pen, she invariably is in her hidey box when I'm around but will hang out visible and Monty will hang out so she can see her.

I hope this is an encouraging sign - it would be really nice if Monty had a friend, but so far I still can't tell if she lost interest after the other rescues that were here.

Dave







progress?

David L. Fisher
 

I let the newcomer out to run around last night, and made sure that Monty couldn't get too aggressive (and she seems to be inclined to nip through the x-pen fence).  So far, Monty has ignored her enough that I think it's a good sign.

Interestingly, not a single territorial marker (no poop, no pee) from her exploring, and also just sitting and calmly grooming herself.  Later on, I noticed that Monty went around and licked the carpet everywhere the newcomer was - and she also didn't leave any territorial markers.

I know it's early on, but I think this might be a good sign, except for the small displays of aggression.  I'm hoping that Monty will get used to her sharing the space, and come to accept her.  She is not hyper like the other bunnies I had here (which might annoy Monty) - she is very mellow, and I'm hoping she'll come out of her shell.  When she's in her pen, she invariably is in her hidey box when I'm around but will hang out visible and Monty will hang out so she can see her.

I hope this is an encouraging sign - it would be really nice if Monty had a friend, but so far I still can't tell if she lost interest after the other rescues that were here.

Dave


Re: Older neutered male rabbit humping...

Nancy Ainsworth
 

Hi Sandra,
Would your vet have included adrenal gland tests in the first go-round? Off the top of my head I don't know if normal thyroid levels would rule out any adrenal situation.
We've got a male (neutered) bun now whose similar behavior brought about tests like yours and the test results point to something testicular left behind. Like your bun, he is a pain to his bonded partner (though not with humping but chasing) and sprays like crazy - but when he's calm he's as sweet as can be.
Nancy


-----Original Message-----
From: sandralyngdorf <sandralyngdorf@...>
To: main@etherbun.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jun 7, 2021 11:44 am
Subject: [Etherbun Main] Older neutered male rabbit humping...

Dear all, 

Our 8-year old male rabbit Timothy has been humping his 8-year old wife-bun Clover relentlessly for a few months now. He also sprays all over and his thing is fully out when he tries to hump. He was neutered at the age of 4 months and she was spayed at 6 months. 

The humping is relatively new behaviour and Clover has always been alpha-bun. Most of the time, Clover allows the humping - she just goes about her business, eating etc but there are also times where she is clearly annoyed and tries to get away from him. He then chases her around. In between the humping sessions, they groom and cuddle etc. 

We have separated them with a fence a few times when the humping has gotten too intense and Clover hasnt been allowed to eat in peace. We are also a bit worried about his humping given their age.

We took Timmy to the vet a few months ago and an ultrasound was done to check if they could see any remnant of his testicles but that was not the case. We also had a blood test done to check testosterone and thyroid levels but all normal. 

Just wanted to ask if anyone had any advice or if there is anything we can do? We have another vet appointment on Friday for health checks etc. 

Thank you!

Sandra


Re: Rosehips

Kinenchen
 

I've fed brambles (roses, blackberries, raspberries, dewberries, etc. I rinse and sun dry them) from my garden for years without issues. They nibble the thorns off rose trimmings first. 

Dried whole rose hips from various online shops are also a welcome treat in our house. Frontier and Starwood both package organic rose hips as loose tea. The quality is reliable; they're fragrant and not dusty. 

I don't give more than a pinch; the nutrition data for fresh rose hips suggest they're quite nutritious. https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/ethnic-foods/10470/2 Dried is slightly less nutritious, but still great as a treat, especially relative to packaged treats. https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/custom/2340250/2

I'm always skeptical of "some [people] say". The plural of anecdote isn't "data", but at least with anecdotes and personal opinions, you can ask the person questions about their experience and reasonings. 

Christie Taylor


On Mon, Jun 7, 2021, 5:52 PM David L. Fisher <dlf@...> wrote:

I got mine from Sweet Meadow Farm, and all of the bunnies that I've offered them to really liked them and I didn't see any issues.  They're small dried flakes, and I thought they were meant to be ground up and added to food, but they also work as treats.  The bunnies just crunch them down.  :)

Dave


On 6/7/2021 5:46 PM, paulette via groups.io wrote:
Good article. It appears article pertains to "fresh" rose hips, which should never be given to rabbits...my understanding is only the "dried" cut, sometimes described as cracked rose hips are safe for rabbits and Guinea pigs.

I only purchase Organic dried cut rose hips from Mountain Rose Herbs or Starwest Botanicals, and I have never seen any seeds or hairy parts:).

Paulette


On Monday, June 7, 2021, 05:05:26 PM EDT, Erik and Maizey aka crazy Maizey <hopefullysomedaysoon@...> wrote:


Both.
Usually the seeds are removed when dried, depending on who prepared them. Most the hairs are on the seeds but there are more along the inner walls of the rosehip as well.

this link pertains to human consumption, but the irritation mentioned is worse upon rabbit’s digestive tract and additionally their respiratory system. 

https://www.plantfoodathome.com/what-are-rose-hips-and-how-to-eat-them/

otherwise...tons of vitamin C!! And never caused an issue with any bunny I’ve known.


Re: Rosehips

paulette
 

Hi Tal,

Occasionally I have offered my rabbits cracked/cut dried rose hips as a "treat" but not too much and not daily.  Rose hips contain sugars ( fructose, sucrose, glucose ) so that's another reason I would limit it.

Below is a recommended dosage from a bunny site that I had on file..

Recommended dosage ( this is for the cut/cracked rose hips )
Small and medium rabbits - 1/4 teaspoon; larger rabbits - 1/3 teaspoon; rosehips can be given daily."  ..... Although personally I would not offer daily due to the sugar content, ( unless maybe I'd decrease the amount a bit ).

I would follow the recommendation on the Binky Bunny's website, as the information is from a Certified herbalist ( floppers garden ) and I believe a long time fellow bunny rescuer/lover.
Recommended: 1/4 tsp, three times a week. 

Hope this helps,

Paulette


On Monday, June 7, 2021, 01:05:11 AM EDT, motek_and_gozal via groups.io <talsaarony@...> wrote:


I have been giving rose hips as a treat for years in the hope it will help with arthritis. Not sure if it does or not, have definitely had bunnies who developed severe arthritis while on it (along with other stuff), but it seems like a healthy treat. I have a new girl, estimated age 5 months. She doesn't want apple or carrot, but loves her rose hips. I have been giving her 2 tbs. twice a day. I was looking at the binky bunny website and they say "rose hips (adult bunnies only)". Does anyone know of a reason I shouldn't give my young girl rose hips or should restrict quantities?

Thanks,

Tal


Re: Rosehips

David L. Fisher
 

I got mine from Sweet Meadow Farm, and all of the bunnies that I've offered them to really liked them and I didn't see any issues.  They're small dried flakes, and I thought they were meant to be ground up and added to food, but they also work as treats.  The bunnies just crunch them down.  :)

Dave


On 6/7/2021 5:46 PM, paulette via groups.io wrote:
Good article. It appears article pertains to "fresh" rose hips, which should never be given to rabbits...my understanding is only the "dried" cut, sometimes described as cracked rose hips are safe for rabbits and Guinea pigs.

I only purchase Organic dried cut rose hips from Mountain Rose Herbs or Starwest Botanicals, and I have never seen any seeds or hairy parts:).

Paulette


On Monday, June 7, 2021, 05:05:26 PM EDT, Erik and Maizey aka crazy Maizey <hopefullysomedaysoon@...> wrote:


Both.
Usually the seeds are removed when dried, depending on who prepared them. Most the hairs are on the seeds but there are more along the inner walls of the rosehip as well.

this link pertains to human consumption, but the irritation mentioned is worse upon rabbit’s digestive tract and additionally their respiratory system. 

https://www.plantfoodathome.com/what-are-rose-hips-and-how-to-eat-them/

otherwise...tons of vitamin C!! And never caused an issue with any bunny I’ve known.


Re: Rosehips

paulette
 

Good article. It appears article pertains to "fresh" rose hips, which should never be given to rabbits...my understanding is only the "dried" cut, sometimes described as cracked rose hips are safe for rabbits and Guinea pigs.

I only purchase Organic dried cut rose hips from Mountain Rose Herbs or Starwest Botanicals, and I have never seen any seeds or hairy parts:).

Paulette


On Monday, June 7, 2021, 05:05:26 PM EDT, Erik and Maizey aka crazy Maizey <hopefullysomedaysoon@...> wrote:


Both.
Usually the seeds are removed when dried, depending on who prepared them. Most the hairs are on the seeds but there are more along the inner walls of the rosehip as well.

this link pertains to human consumption, but the irritation mentioned is worse upon rabbit’s digestive tract and additionally their respiratory system. 

https://www.plantfoodathome.com/what-are-rose-hips-and-how-to-eat-them/

otherwise...tons of vitamin C!! And never caused an issue with any bunny I’ve known.

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